Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella testifies at Google antitrust trial


Microsoft’s Bing search engine is inferior to Google. Consider it or not, it appears no one — not even Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella — disputes that reality. However over hours of contentious testimony from Nadella throughout the landmark US v. Google antitrust trial, the rationale for that inferiority turned the query of the day.

Nadella, in a darkish blue swimsuit, took the stand early Monday morning after a couple of minutes of scheduling updates and a delay lengthy sufficient that Choose Amit Mehta requested jokingly, “Mr. Nadella didn’t return to Seattle, did he?” However finally, questioning started from Adam Severt, a lawyer on the Division of Justice. 

At first, Severt merely requested Nadella to clarify why he even needed to attempt to compete with Google. Nadella’s reply? Cash. “I see search as the biggest software program class on the market by far,” he stated. “I used to consider Home windows and Workplace as enticing companies till I noticed search.” He defined that Bing didn’t must win the market to be a giant enterprise — and that Bing already turns a revenue for Microsoft. (Google’s lead counsel, John Schmidtlein, later joked that he wished his regulation agency may rely “marginally worthwhile” within the billions of {dollars}, as Nadella did with Bing. “It’s best to get into the search enterprise!” Nadella gleefully replied.)

“I used to consider Home windows and Workplace as enticing companies till I noticed search”

Severt’s questions centered for a very long time on Google’s billion-dollar deal to be the unique search supplier on Apple units and what it would imply to Microsoft if it have been to have that deal as a substitute. “It could be a game-changer,” Nadella stated. He stated that Microsoft was ready to provide Apple all the financial upside of the deal if Apple have been to change to Bing — and stated he was ready to lose as much as $15 billion a yr within the course of. Nadella even stated he was keen to cover the Bing model in Apple customers’ serps and respect any of the corporate’s privateness needs, so pressing was his have to get extra information at any price. “Defaults are the one factor that matter,” he stated, “by way of altering consumer habits.” He known as the concept that it’s simple to change “bogus.”

For Nadella, turning into Apple’s default search engine wouldn’t be concerning the cash, a minimum of circuitously. “We would have liked to be much less grasping and extra aggressive,” he defined. A sudden improve in distribution, he stated, would give Bing a rise in what Nadella known as “question movement,” which primarily simply means extra folks would do extra searches. Extra incoming searches means extra information the Bing workforce can use to enhance the search engine and extra causes for advertisers to come back to the platform. An improved search engine will get used extra, which implies extra information, and spherical and spherical it goes. That is the virtuous cycle of serps, and Nadella believes Bing may use that cycle to rapidly catch as much as Google’s high quality. Or, for those who’re Bing — the dropping occasion that may’t get the queries, the information, the advertisers, or the customers — “it’s a vicious cycle.”

Has Microsoft tried to change into Apple’s default search engine, Severt requested? Sure, Nadella stated. How’d it go? “Not effectively,” Nadella deadpanned. Not solely are the economics of the Google deal massively favorable for Apple, he stated, however Apple can also be afraid of what Google would do if it misplaced default standing. Google has quite a few massively fashionable companies, like Gmail and YouTube — what if Google used these apps to relentlessly promote downloading Chrome, thus instructing folks to bypass the Safari browser solely? That concern, Nadella claims, retains Apple and Google collectively as a lot as something. 

Each Severt and Mehta requested Nadella about how AI — and particularly Microsoft’s huge partnership with OpenAI, which has utterly modified the way in which Bing works — will change the search market. Severt even particularly referenced Nadella’s remark about “making Google dance,” which Nadella stated to The Verge earlier this yr. Nadella walked that one again a bit: “Name it the exuberance of somebody who has 3 p.c share,” he stated.

“It’s a vicious cycle”

Whereas Nadella stated AI has the potential to shake up the market a bit, he additionally believes it may additional entrench Google’s dominance. Search engines like google and yahoo are essentially reliant on web sites permitting themselves to be crawled in order that the engines can perceive their content material and direct customers to these websites. Nadella known as serps “the organizing layer of the web” in that sense. However as massive language model-powered techniques proceed to develop, publishers and platforms are rising cautious of how their information is ingested and used to coach AI techniques. These publishers, Nadella stated, could begin to signal unique offers that permit Google — and solely Google — to make use of their information. That may primarily crush each different search engine available on the market. “What’s publicly accessible as we speak, will or not it’s publicly accessible tomorrow?” he requested; “That’s the difficulty.” He stated he’s already listening to from publishers with a deal in place with Google, asking Bing to match it.

In the end, Nadella’s story was not that totally different from what different upstart serps say: Google makes it unattainable to compete by making itself the default search engine in every single place. Since most individuals don’t change their defaults, which means no different firm has an opportunity to get in entrance of customers and get the information they should construct an awesome product and construct a significant competitor.

When Google had an opportunity to cross-examine Nadella, Schmidtlein made a distinct case. In his view, Bing shouldn’t be an inferior search engine as a result of it was disadvantaged of oxygen by Google; Bing is inferior as a result of Microsoft has mismanaged its search and cellular merchandise for the higher a part of 20 years. A key a part of Google’s protection is that it’s not unlawful to construct the most effective search engine, and Schmidtlein argued that’s the solely factor Google did.

Schmidtlein led Nadella on a virtually two-hour tour of Microsoft’s failures, from MSN Search in 1998 via the ugly finish of Web Explorer, the costly failure of Home windows Cellphone, the countless renaming and rebooting of Microsoft’s search merchandise, its massively problematic offers to bundle Bing search with BlackBerry and Nokia telephones, and way more. (Nadella, as he did so typically throughout the cross-examination, nodded and stated “right” and “that sounds proper.”) In each case, Schmidtlein argued, Google merely out-invested and out-executed Microsoft.

One frequent level of emphasis from legal professionals on each side was the way in which Bing and Edge are bundled into Home windows. Schmidtlein identified that though Microsoft bundles Edge and Bing with virtually each Home windows PC on the planet, Chrome and Google Search are each vastly extra fashionable amongst Home windows customers. That, he argued, as Google has all through this trial, proves that defaults don’t really matter a lot. Nadella and the DOJ stated it proved the alternative. The actual fact that Bing has market share of any variety on Home windows — which is someplace within the teenagers, Nadella stated, versus “low, low single digits” on cellular — is proof that defaults do work. Extra folks used Bing, which helped make Bing higher, which made fewer folks change. Not everybody would drop Google instantly, he stated, however controlling the defaults has helped Microsoft start to make a dent.

Nadella repeatedly stated he believes that defaults matter in a giant approach, it doesn’t matter what the Home windows market share numbers say. When Mehta requested him to answer the concept that customers can simply change serps, he stated that “my solely argument towards that’s that customers don’t change.” His finest instance: Apple Maps, which began out disastrously unhealthy however has nonetheless gained market share within the final decade as a result of it’s preinstalled on each iPhone. “Folks use it — it’s the default,” he stated.

“I’m not focused on competing with TikTok”

The ability of defaults is likely one of the central questions of your complete US v. Google case and can proceed to come back up. (The witness after Nadella is former Neeva CEO Sridhar Ramaswamy, who has additionally stated his search engine was crushed partly as a result of overcoming Google’s default standing was so tough.) Nadella is within the uncommon place to have seen each side — what it’s wish to be the default and what it’s wish to contend if you’re not — and argued resolutely that defaults are the one factor that actually issues. Google, alternatively, says that constructing the most effective product is the one factor that actually issues and that Bing has by no means come near doing that. Which aspect of that debate Choose Mehta agrees with could be the story of this complete trial.

On the finish of his testimony, Nadella spent a couple of minutes debating with Schmidtlein how large the search engine market actually is. (That’s the opposite query of this — and virtually each — antitrust case: what’s the market we’re debating, and the way aggressive is it actually?) They mentioned whether or not vertical serps like Yelp and Tripadvisor pose a menace, whether or not Microsoft competes with Amazon and Fb for search adverts, and whether or not consumer habits is shifting away from the so-called “common serps” like Bing and Google. 

Schmidtlein argued that serps have an enormous and rising record of opponents. Nadella largely dismissed the thought. “I’m not focused on competing with TikTok,” stated the identical man who as soon as almost acquired TikTok. Schmidtlein laughed in response. “We’ll see how that goes.”


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